Non-Faction Members Should Not Exceed Faction Members In Dominions

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]

Dominions use the Dominion tag, not the faction tag. And even then on more than enough occurrences Faction threads have been open to the public too.

 

[Boethiah]

Dominions use the Dominion tag, not the faction tag

It was an example.

Anyway, this is an off-topic point. If you disagree with my suggestion then do so, but unrelated issues should be discussed in a new thread if you feel it warrants a discussion.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

... Im discussing the same exact thing you brought up, and might i remind everyone of a year back during the dominion the Black Suns did that was an auction that -encouraged- people not in the faction to join. Im sorry but this has been going on for a while and i feel something must have happened towards your faction or character for this to be brought up. Allowing people to join who are not non-faction members adds to recruitment and showing your willingness to work with others which is why i dont support this because its a detriment to the extensiveness factions can go to.

 

[Fabula Caromed]

Ten points to Griffyndor. Nail on the head.

 

[Boethiah]

Allowing people to join who are not non-faction members adds to recruitment and showing your willingness to work with others which is why i dont support this because its a detriment to the extensiveness factions can go to.

I'll agree to that point. But again, I've never once suggested that people not of the faction cannot join -- just that they shouldn't overshadow the effort of the faction itself. It's not taking pity on factions who might be at a disadvantage if this rule were in place. In fact, the owners of two major factions which would benefit the least from this rule suggestion have supported it in writing.

There are plenty of ways to get activity into a faction... Like starting a campaign, public thread, asking new members to join, asking writers you enjoy to make new characters, making recruitment threads. Before the Netherworld event there were so few dominions going on that I doubt they were even a primary source of recruitment. Sure, more dominions will occur now but they're not going to be the bait in which to draw new members.

This is a recent example of why those in support believe this rule should be in place.

Not to mention: For those who want to bring up the multi-factioned PC, this would actually make the issue more transparent as it would destroy potential leeway to avoid the issue entirely.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]

The problem is that even if this rule was put in place you would have the smae problem that people accuse the OS and Prime of which is multifactioning. It would be a waste of time for the addition of this rule in the first place and as i said before this has been something that has happened for atleast two years now in my time here. Its something that introduces people to how people in factions act in the war zone and the thread you linked is one in which the Mandalorians -ICly- hired the mercs to help them. It was a useful plot device like the auction thread in which to expose them to other people and get them new members. And this rule would only serve not to hinder factions but to hinder those writers themselves as they would then not want to join these dominions as freelancers and thus further weakens Minor factions and Solo people on this board... which are already sufficiently weakened and even forced the Rebel Alliance to go major so that they could actually make a difference.

 

[Beowoof]

What [member="Anja Aj'Rou"] has been saying this entire time is that the help from non-faction members should not exceed the work put in by faction members. I would not expect the Republic or the Mandos or even the Red Ravens to contribute more to a Rebel Alliance dominion than the RA's own membership. Why would I expect someone to 'buy' property for me?

Or maybe I'm just thinking too capitalist.

Either way, this makes sense. Take care of your own. If you can't even dominion a planet without another faction doing 50% of the work, then you probably can't stand up to an invasion and you don't belong on the map. Just sayin'.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Beowoof"]

Its not a matter of cant though, and there is a fine line between cant and didn't. The Mandalorians, with the exception of that one dominion that ive been shown, have been more than able to take their own planets albeit a bit slower than the OS, The Republic, or the Prime. But what i saw in that thread was not their inability to take a planet themselves but looking outside of their faction to give the people that want to play a merc character a chance too. This rule would force you to join a Major faction if you dont want to put that faction's dominion in jeopardy by playing your solo merc character as a merc character...

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

I fail to see the issue here. Nobody is forcing the others to join in, and no matter what, you're getting that planet. So if they're helping you do that then...good?

 

[Kei Amadis]

For what it's worth:

TL;DR
A compromise – A dominion needs to have a significant number posts written by a faction. Pick a hard number and use that, written by a minimum number of unique writers from that faction, regardless of anyone else in the thread.

Longer Version.

I was leaning yes because some people will always rush things for the sake of the map, because that’s what they find fun, everyone has different types of fun. For me personally, I am now saying I’m not in favour of this, at present I have nobody multi factioned either, so it’s not about personal OOC play for me at present.

I think it restricts creativity too much with little gained. So someone gets another square on the map, nice OOC but IC it’s about story, for me anyway. As an example: I can completely see [member="Taiden Keth"] for example my prideful Echani, assisting a faction with a dominion for his homeworld, if he thought that faction were doing the right thing. But I have to miss out on that because of some arbitrary rule somewhere?

If we are really talking about the meta, if someone wants that square, they are going to invade it and if the faction that took it has nobody to defend it, that’s game over for them. Also someone can just make an alt to boost a factions numbers, so it doesn't make any odds.

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Alexandra Feanor"]

This is maybe the third time someone's passively called us out for multi-faction PC stuff...

How about the six members I've invited to the site that've actively participated in our Netherworld dominions?

Or these six characters who develop through roleplay exclusively within The Primeval faction?

Also the three people I've recently recruited to the site?

There's also plenty of others who , yes participate in other factions, but have delved in various threads (private/public/faction) with us. Not just when it matters.

So please refrain form making accusations. I may be lazy, but I don't ride shotgun.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]

I wasn't calling you a multi faction group, i was pointing out that others have in the past... no need to get defensive.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]
Easy tiger. That high horse is looking mighty draughty.

Let's get things back on topic.

 

[Kei Amadis]

The main thing that jumps out at me:

I honestly get what you are saying but people can just make alts and put them anywhere, so the multi-faction thing on the purely OOC meta level doesn't really make any difference.

IC I get it to an extent, so having a minimum number of faction members seems the way to go, with a min post count from the faction, everything else on top of that is just for story or fun.

 

[Boethiah]

My apologies.

[member="Kei Amadis"] [member="Valiens Nantaris"]

My suggestion in no way prevents people from helping out. What I'm suggesting is that the amount of writers helping a faction complete its dominion should not exceed the amount of faction members working towards it.

If I had 5 faction members posting consistently in my dominions, I shouldn't have 7 non-faction members posting consistently in my dominions. That's my belief and I feel it gets really excessive when the amount of outside help nearly doubles what the faction is actually posting. The 1/5th rule aside, I still think this is a valid issue that must be explored for solutions. Dominions should be a faction effort.

(To Kei)
Edit: I see what's being said, though, but that's a problem not strictly related to dominions. Multi-faction PCs, that is.

 

[Vivienne Zambrano]

I think that having a limit on non-faction PCs in a dominion makes sense, though it doesn't seem like the biggest issue we could be addressing. While having stories is nice and all, and letting freelance mercs have more story stuff is great (like, seriously, half of my mercs ended up in factions because I couldn't personally find enough non-faction related stuff for them to do), a faction should be doing most of the work for getting stuff for themselves. Part of it is 'you gotta work for your stuff' (though IC hiring mercs is working, and should count for something) and part of it is 'realism'. Realistically 95% of government groups would rely, at a rough estimate, 10-15% on others to do their work for them at most. Probably. I'm tired. That, of course, can be countered with the argument of there being more NPCs then PCs. Makes sense.

Essentially, though it may not seem like it, I'm kinda in the middle on this one. Just wanted to get my two (or five) cents out there.

Also, since I think I saw a toe or two get (unintentionally) stepped on... have this:

Spoiler

 

[Kei Amadis]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]

Yep I see that - But what if there was a minimum post count from the faction.

Let's say you had 10 faction members helping, and 11 non faction you'd be against that why?

What would be the difference in OOC terms, they'd be helping make the story fun, and keep things moving in IC, but the actual members from that faction would need to make the post numbers. If we are talking purely in IC terms, then allies or neutrals should be able to help each other, or fight for a cause etc.

^ The only argument, and i'm sorry RPJ's as I used to be one briefly, is you're counting that number out till you hit the tally. That might be too big a negative for the idea on consideration.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

I'm still not seeing the issue. If a faction wants to do dominions without having the numbers to really take it...more fool them come invasion time.

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Vivienne Zambrano"]

A major faction usually has around 10 writers (give or take a few) on board their dominion. Whilst I see that limitations might make people feel that they may get left out, but in reality even if it's equal to the amount of writers -- say 7 -- that's still 7 people not from your faction who are able to help out. In the example where there were 8 faction members and 15 non-faction members, I only believe about 5 of those were actually mercs. The other 10 were from various other sources not related to the hiring thread.

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

The more planets one has the more benefit to that faction. Not to mention, the size of a faction--accurate or not--is generally a way to see how active a faction is. Whilst much has changed thanks to the Netherworld event, there's still the issue that if a faction recruited twice its thread activity in outside effort then what does that say about their activity? I get that in its own right what i'm saying can be a consequence in its own, but I really don't believe it should be left ignored.

I fully believe this suggestion would also encourage factions to focus on gaining activity through better storytelling than your run-of-the-mill 3 objective dominions.

 

[Vivienne Zambrano]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]
*shrugs*
I'm thinking in general, not going off of the one example presented, along with the dozen or so I can remember from past months.
I think Kei over there has a good idea though. Maybe instead of limiting how many non-faction characters can post (which isn't really limiting much, anyway), a simple rule of something along the lines of "Faction PCs must account for at least 50% of the posts made" or whatever percentage makes the most sense. Once again, I'm tired (avoiding sleep due to recurring nightmares is fun), and am kind of just trying to throw out ideas.
Feel free to ignore what I say.