Tweak the focus of the Map Game

[Malok]

A big, "I don't want to put in effort for this, I want to be recognized for what I'm already doing".

Say it louder for the people in the back.

 

[Jsc]

In essence, it sounds more people here want passive expansion for things they're already doing that aren't doms.

I wouldn't dismiss this type of suggestion too quickly. As, much of the system we use today was crafted to fulfill just such similar frustrations. PvE stuff for PvE people, PvP stuff for PvP people. Corporations for solo players and Factory Subs for LEGO builders. Man. Chaos really is at it's best when it's catering to the desires of its people. No matter how strange that first sounds. Mm. Remember how the LFG forum came about? How about the Feedback or Guides forums? And yes, even the Lets-Give-Everybody-Master-Rank-Because-FREEDOM idea. Ha. All of these started out as crazy ideas and evolved out of very weird places at first.

And heck. If people are bored with the status quo? Yeah. I'm okay with letting people brainstorm new ideas and ways to the play the game. I think these kind of suggestions are great. It's fresh, and fun, and sometimes even leads to a good idea or two. Besides. At the end of the day. Even if some crazy new idea gets implemented. Most of us can just ignore it anyway. Kinda like how some of us ignore The Factory, the corporations, the marketplace, the guides and tutorials, the blogs, and even the Master Rank thing. It's no biggie.

Anyway. Free expansions for things people are already doing sounds like a natural fit to me. Well. If only worth a little more thought and feedback at least.

 

[Scherezade deWinter]

I wouldn't dismiss this type of suggestion too quickly.

When the suggestion includes stuff like Codex spamming to gain hexes, I easily dismiss it.

I'm okay with letting people brainstorm new ideas and ways to the play the game. I think these kind of suggestions are great. It's fresh, and fun, and sometimes even leads to a good idea or two.

I completely agree. I even wrote a few words about it in my first post to this thread.

Free expansions for things people are already doing sounds like a natural fit to me.

Depends what they're doing. Going back to the Codex example, it doesn't differ too much in my eyes than giving factions free hexes if their writers are active in the posting games section of the board.

 

[Koda Fett]

I'm lazy and so I didn't read everyone's replies, but I've seen Dominions as just grinds to the 50 post mark. It hits that, and then it stops because a lot of the time it's just writing for the sake of hitting that point. Sure, there can be really engaging stories written in a Dominion but most of the time they cater to smaller interactions that (whilst fine) don't really need to exist. I'm all for it, even if just a test phase.

 

[Tefka]

For me, it's important to note that the OP is a Codex Judge. For me, that's where those Codex suggestions are coming from.

I'm not empowering the Codex nor the Factory to affect the map game beyond creating new planets.

For me, that's bias inherent in the OP.



For ya'll...

I've seen Dominions as just grinds to the 50 post mark.

There's many posts like this in this thread, this one is just my lazy grab to contextualize my response. I... get it. I don't agree with many of the solutions proposed, but I'll task Staff with seriously contemplating it.

Contemplating new stuff is always fun, but not always smart. Again, there is no system simpler, easier to understand, and more rewarding on SWRP at this moment. Dominions have forever been the foundation for Faction role-play, and removing them isn't really an option to me because they're not really the problem.

The problem incorrectly placed on the shoulders of doms by the OP is -in my opinion- boring leaders, and a currently boring map.

 

[Darth Empyrean]

[member="Scherezade deWinter"]

To quote a Confederacy staff member directly; "I hate dominions, we just do them because we need to."

Hexes mean nothing but a color on the map, and while a few people might enjoy dominions as they stand, its blatantly obvious they burn people out and crush muse. Is it really such a big deal if there are more ways to get it than coming up with 3 'interesting and engaging' dominion ideas that always end the same way? I'm glad if there are a few of you guys who enjoy how it stands, but it seems pretty pointless to get defensive when your own staff are getting burnt out constantly by what the dominions are doing.

I'm all for taking the stress off the staff, and a few different ways to achieve the same goal sounds as good as any. Its not like a hex really matters that much, they don't give you anything at the end of the day.

 

[Tefka]

[member="Darth Maliphant"]

Let's imagine Dominions were gone.

Activity will still be necessary, or you won't expand. Activity will still be necessary, or you might get demoted to a Minor Faction. Activity will still be necessary, and the Factory nor the Codex will count towards it.

So... are these Faction Staff members getting burnt out because of role-playing? Because if so, they're going to keep getting burnt out regardless of the existence of Dominions.

If anything, I'd wager the stress on the Faction Staff members isn't the process, it's convincing people to show up and role-play.

 

[Darth Empyrean]

[member="Tefka"]

While you're not wrong, I think that's why the OP has a point.

I'd say easing up the requirements for expansion allows people to contribute in ways they might enjoy more than the 50 post grind fest dominions are now. People enjoy posting to the factory, to codex, doing their own little storylines, yadayada; but as it stands dominions don't have people show up for any number of reasons. We could blame the faction staff, but there is only so many times people can slap lipstick on a pig and be interested in

- Objective 1: Build The Thing
- Objective 2: Kill the Insurgents
- Objective 3: Investigate The Spooks
- Objective 4: BYOO

Idk. I certainly agree half of it is faction staff being repetitive, boring, and not engaging their writerbase enough, but at the same time giving the staff more options could help breathe life into the system. Ignoring conquests, apparently, because major factions can't get along, it seems.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

- Objective 1: Build The Thing - Objective 2: Kill the Insurgents - Objective 3: Investigate The Spooks - Objective 4: BYOO

There's nothing that stipulates that a dominion have such objectives. The difference between a dominion and a faction thread is rather arbitrary - the former just nets you a hex after you reach 50 posts. It can tell whatever story the faction wants.

Ignoring conquests, apparently, because major factions can't get along, it seems.

Isn't the whole point of the map game that different groups clash as they struggle for control? Instead of everyone being safe in their insulated bubbles. Personally I think the map needs more fighting - fighting with actual stakes, not predetermined skirmishes.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Darth Maliphant"] - Likewise, we could restrict doms in number. Speaking just from a math standpoint really. 3 doms a month versus 1 invasion a month = doms get you more territory monthly = thusly people feeling doms are the min-max way to go. Heck. I remember back in the day when "2 doms is better than 1 invasion" was a slogan against faction drama. Your PvP guys might lose a planet during the invasion but your PvE boys just banked you 2 new ones because doms. Really made *winning* the game easier insulating your loses like that.

If stopping burnout is your main concern? Maybe reeling in doms is the better way to go eh.

 

[Tefka]

I mean, real talk, those of us who know OP know he's a pretty lazy writer who's had a chip on his shoulder since Lords of the Fringe.

And they already have numerous options to breathe life into the system. Rebellions, Invasions, Dominions, Conquests, Skirmishes, Factions, Private, Public, etc. Create an organic event. Do a Dark Harvest if you're bored. Do a Mando Civil War. Do an Endgame.

The map and the absence of anyone in the Core Worlds, to me, is telling enough. Ya'll are currently content keeping your heads under your sandboxes.

I'm okay with this, it's pretty cyclical. But we're not gonna murder dominions just because ya'll can't convince your Faction Staffers to be exciting.

 

[Darth Empyrean]

There's nothing that stipulates that a dominion have such objectives. The difference between a dominion and a faction thread is rather arbitrary - the former just nets you a hex after you reach 50 post. It can tell whatever story the faction wants.

What I said was a satirical jab at dominions that usually show up, just in case you thought I was serious. As far as the arbitrary difference, that is true, but most don't want to get involved with a dominion because they are shallow by comparison, and nobody wants to do faction threads because they already spent all their muse making 20 posts for the month to get their faction staff a new SSD.

Isn't the whole point of the map game that different groups clash as they struggle for control? Instead of everyone sitting in their insulated bubbles. Personally I think the map needs more fighting - fighting with actual stakes, not predetermined skirmishes.

Once again, a jab at major factions for not actually working together where there isn't as much to lose (Conquest), and anywhere else they have 'stakes' (IE: A color on the map and bragging rights) is just a salt fest that involves someone writing a post someone will bring up for the next 2 months because they critiqued it to their friend group. Should the map game have more interesting details put on it? For sure, I totally agree, but I'm not sure I could agree with more fighting, since Chaos has proven time and time again to be a cesspool of salt and villany.

If stopping burnout is your main concern? Maybe reeling in doms is the better way to go eh.

Honestly, I'm not sure I could agree with that. I'm not for restricting people here, and I don't believe in saving them from themselves, I'm just looking for the chance to see a new idea that makes Doms not universally hated by the community, which seems to be the consensus if you bring up the words 'Hate' and 'Dominion' in the same sentence. Unless you're talking about Ession, but whatever.

But we're not gonna murder dominions just because ya'll can't convince your Faction Staffers to be exciting.

I'm not sure anyone is suggesting murdering dominions, or at the very least I'm not. I just want to see more options, a little more depth maybe, something that gives dominions a bit of a flare or rejuvenation that they aren't so dreaded. Different rewards, more ways to expand influence clouds, maybe just something more engaging.

Something, I suppose. Take from it what you will.

 

[Jsc]

I'm just looking for the chance to see a new idea that makes Doms not universally hated by the community

Well. I'm not seeing a lot of terribly good new ideas at the moment and I'm pretty sure we can all agree doms are not *universally* *hated* by the community. Ha. (You get 2 points for attempting melodrama though. Nice!) So... Meh. I guess I'll guess I'll just bank this suggestion up to boring writing by bored players and a boring map.

Derp derp. Well enough. Good thread.

 

[LT-137]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"] - Since you seem to relish tearing apart other ideas, while not offering any of your own - Let me pose a question to you. What would you do to spice up the map game, and make Dominion's more entertaining?

 

[Scherezade deWinter]

Is it really such a big deal if there are more ways to get it than coming up with 3 'interesting and engaging' dominion ideas that always end the same way?

I've written several times by now - the problem is not changing the dominions. The problem is the changes suggested in this thread.

but it seems pretty pointless to get defensive when your own staff are getting burnt out constantly by what the dominions are doing.

Our staff as a team is far from being burned out. Individual concerns are treated individually. I can't respond to some nameless staffer person, especially not in a thread like this.

People enjoy posting to the factory, to codex, doing their own little storylines, yadayada; but as it stands dominions don't have people show up for any number of reasons. We could blame the faction staff, but there is only so many times people can slap lipstick on a pig and be interested in - Objective 1: Build The Thing - Objective 2: Kill the Insurgents - Objective 3: Investigate The Spooks - Objective 4: BYOO

You're right. And that is where faction staff should change things around and do more than lipstick slapping.

but at the same time giving the staff more options could help breathe life into the system.

Then let's give them more options. Those that were suggested in the opening posts, as well as the preciously few that were followed in responses, aren't more options. They're spam invitations as well as requests to increase the board's salt mines.

I'll repeat myself again - I'm not against changes. I'm against the changes proposed in this thread so far.

Ignoring conquests, apparently, because major factions can't get along, it seems.

Exactly. This is also why there have only been 2-3 invasions in the past 9 months and not more than that. Collaboration is required, and for a good reason. But the reasons as to why factions don't get along is a whole different fish to fry and isn't for this thread.

Isn't the whole point of the map game that different groups clash as they struggle for control? Instead of everyone being safe in their insulated bubbles. Personally I think the map needs more fighting - fighting with actual stakes, not predetermined skirmishes.

If we could actually get this done without the OOC dramaz that usually ensues, it'd be amazing.

 

[VildarnTentoria]

I think at the core of things roleplaying and creativity is what we enjoy for the most part as a site right? At least that’s what brought me here.
I believe Dominions are currently fine the way they are and changing them much isn’t necessary. However maybe some other rewards might be in order? How about some other form of thread that people can join and compete in?

Like we could all join a pvp server centred around some kind of cool plot so it’s not just about fighting each other. Rewards could include special items even if they’re just for show. Or they could be used to add to what you can bring to a plot.

I intend to develop my character over time, so remaining static isn’t a problem for me in dominions. However I can understand that something a little extra may be good once in a while.

 

[Tefka]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"] - Since you seem to relish tearing apart other ideas, while not offering any of your own - Let me pose a question to you. What would you do to spice up the map game, and make Dominion's more entertaining?

Archive all current Major Factions and reset the Map.

 

[Eugen Aker]

Overall, I like the way that Dominions work now. We have a lot of leeway in what we write, so you can treat them like faction threads with a purple tag. As of late, some of my most enjoyable threads have been Doms, and I'm still going back to writing to said threads months later.

That said, I think there could be some tweaks to address some issues I share with other writers, namely the self-contained and shallow nature of many Doms.

The real problem to me is that you're only getting in about 50 posts before you're moving onto the next dom for the month, then the story you had been developing usually falls to the wayside. I've seen a lot of good stories get killed that way, which probably does a lot to discourage people from putting effort into crafting a unique scenario or even just posting. On the other hand, you could stick with that one Dom and keep posting until the story's completion, but then you lose out on the opportunity to pursue other doms and expand your territory, and at the end of it, you have probably put in the effort equivalent to two or more average Dominions.

A third option would be to keep up with all ongoing doms simultaneously, but to date, I've only seen one Major be able to do that consistently without burnout. I experimented with it managing concurrent Doms for the SJO one month, found I didn't like it.

To solve the issue, we could revisit a facet of the old Dominion system, allowing factions to Dom multiple hexes at once (perhaps no more than two). I think that would allow factions to pursue a more satisfying story in one contiguous thread across a wider area.

 

[LT-137]

[member="Tefka"] - That works for me! So it should work for others too!

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

​I don't really know how to word it. But I feel like, part of the problem Is that a lot of people want the cake and they want somebody to spoon feed them it too. Honestly, we have our own fingers.

​I dunno what we should do. But, I do think things as is doesn't work for everyone. And we should at least aim for something to work for everyone. I know personally, that I don't play well with others (Sometimes). And, while I'm working on that. I should be able to achieve goals without having to pretend to like people and vice versa.

​Not everyone likes each other, that's a fact. And co-existing is fine but we shouldn't have to be fake to get somewhere.

​Factions are great but, not everybody wants to be part of a faction. I don't know what​ it is, but we should do away with so much of this hand shaking and actually solidify a progression method for factions and solo players alike.