In My Opinion, This Is Niche Mentality & How It's Killing Smaller Factions

[Tefka]

Did you go to these writers when these prior issues occurred?

Not myself personally, no. Staff has been engaged with every report, every complaint, and I watch. This doesn't count Discord chats/dms/interactions.

It's an unfair characterization that has a disparate impact on Alliance writers, some of whom may be new members participating in their first ever invasion.

Then I would advise the Alliance leadership to do some damage control, and I would advise all other Factions doing/planning similar actions to rethink exactly what they're doing and how it looks.

This is a game.

Issues like this are raised when people take it too seriously.

 

[Isamu Baelor]

But if every time I did something ICly I had to stop and explain myself to everyone on the board I really wouldn't ever get anything done. I'm more than happy to talk and explain myself when people come to me and ask, but part of the problem is people don't. They make assumptions and fall to preconceived notions. So as Tef said, it is a board problem.

This isn't a typical situation. Nor is anyone asking you to explain every IC action. So let's bring the conversation back to where it was:

I think Instead of saying "You should've messaged us!", you should be asking "Why did no one message us?"

If writers don't feel comfortable approaching you (as in the faction, not you the person), that is an issue.

As to why they feel that way, I can't speak for everyone. Perhaps it's past negative experiences, reputations, etc.

I think working on that will produce far better results than the alternative.

I feel like I've started to ramble a bit, but don't take this as me pretending to be on some moral highground. I can/have been a jerk. Nor is it an attack on your character. You've always been respectful to me.

Again, this is just part of me giving my perspective. However valid, or invalid, it may be.

 

[Tanomas Graf]

As the leader of the Galactic Empire and the compiler of evidence, all I have to say is that it was not my intention to maliciously paint targets on individual people or a faction as a whole when I made it. I did this to bring the issue to light, and believe me, the people featured in the original post are some of the nicest people I know, they just did a bad thing. So please, if one of you or the entirety of your faction feel slighted, then I am so, so sorry for what happened, I don't want people to start some witch hunt, I want people to realize the issue and fix it accordingly.

Just what I think, I've probably done enough damage by now.

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

Then I would advise the Alliance leadership to do some damage control, and I would advise all other Factions doing/planning similar actions to rethink exactly what they're doing and how it looks.

Damage control that would not have been necessary had this first been resolved by having the parties talk to each other - as is the routine procedure - and then making a non-libelous thread that doesn't try to out everyone involved.

Other members of the faction should not have to suffer because you decided that this discussion needed to be had in this manner and with the names of all parties involved attached.

If you do not think that the outing methods and demagoguery used to create waves are improper and there's nothing I can do to sway your mind on using this approach in the future, then I suppose that this is where this discussion concludes.

This isn't a typical situation. Nor is anyone asking you to explain every IC action. So let's bring the conversation back to where it was:

I think Instead of saying "You should've messaged us!", you should be asking "Why did no one message us?"

If writers don't feel comfortable approaching you (as in the faction, not you the person), that is an issue.

As to why they feel that way, I can't speak for everyone. Perhaps it's past negative experiences, reputations, etc.

I think working on that will produce far better results than the alternative.

I feel like I've started to ramble a bit, but don't take this as me pretending to be on some moral highground. I can/have been a jerk. Nor is an attack on your character. You've always been respectful to me.

Again, this is just part of me giving my perspective. However valid, or invalid, it may be.

Personally, I have a hard time swallowing the concept that the individual who was banned from the One Sith due to cussing out another writer feels it is acceptable to lecture others on the nature of proper behavior.

[member="Tanomas Graf"], I don't think anyone blames you for doing this. People are not upset that you reported this. People are upset at the way it is being handled.

Alright, I think I've exhausted everything I wanted to discuss. Carry on.

 

[Subject 37]

[member="Isamu Baelor"]

There is not really much more one can do in making yourself approachable as a faction besides stating that you are open to discussion and messages, which pretty much everyone involved in this has.

If you have suggestions on how to accomplish this I'd love to hear them though.

 

[Tefka]

Damage control that would not have been necessary had this first been resolved by having the parties talk to each other

Damage control that would not have been necessary had this first been resolved if the parties *felt safe talking to each other instead of compiling screenshots of the crapstorm they were about to endure from a proxy faction.

 

[Isamu Baelor]

Personally, I have a hard time swallowing the concept that the individual who was banned from the One Sith due to cussing out another writer feels it is acceptable to lecture others on the nature of proper behavior.

THIS is the reason why I would not approach the GA to discuss matters.

Thanks for making my point.

Additionally, I noted there that my intention was not to act as though I'm on a high horse. I have learned ways to deal with situations such as that over time. That's all.

Also, just for the sake of clarification: the banned was overturned, and the person who did it apologized.

But hey, thanks for continuously being a jerk.

[member="Slevin Thawne"]

Based off Korr's reaction, I don't really think there's a point.

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

[member="Ryan Korr"]

As someone who has been on multiple sites and groups related to RP, Star Wars especially, things like this are going to happen no matter what rules are in place or what guidelines are set down. Tefka did not paint a target on the GA. This happened to be the time when he finally reached the point where he decided to bring up the issue. Is it unfortunate in the timing in respect to how YOU believe this will affect the opinions of others? Sure, and yea it involves the GA. Question is would you care even a quarter as much if this were the First Order that was mentioned as an example in the opening post? Or the Silver Jedi? How about the ORC? Any other major faction? Probably not. Why, because then you aren't a part of the faction. I was a part of the GA long ago, back during the dominion of Sullust. Hell that was my first RP on here. I have to say that I had a good experience with all those whom I wrote with during my tenure there and the opening post of this thread didn't change my view of either the faction nor of the writers in the GA, I have nothing against any in the faction nor do I have reason to.

As for the metagaming, everyone does to some degree. OOC bias will always influence IC decisions to some degree, though it does differ from one person to the next. So no I don't care what happens to the 'metagaming writers,' given that in nearly a decade of writing I have not run into one single person who didn't meta in some capacity. However if people don't feel comfortable approaching you or another to work out an issue they have, then on whom does the fault rest? I would argue it rests on the one who is apparently so intimidating to the other that they feel it would be a waste of time or worse to approach them. Is it always due to IC actions of the character? No. Sometimes it falls on the faction or group they belong to and the feeling that if you call out one writer for something that the rest of the faction will jump on their back over it is discouragement enough for them to either let the issue drop or find other methods of resolution.

The point above is something I have seen happen with many factions. I understand wanting to help your friends out when they feel they are being unfairly ostracized, and yet I have seen those who tried to address an issue in a civil manner ostracized by entire factions or nearly whole factions for trying to address what in the beginning may have been a simple misunderstanding of wording. So maybe take a look at how you word your responses to things such as this and realize that how you respond is also going to reflect on your faction. Not to mention what you cite as painting an entire faction in a bad light is incredibly weak as I have followed this whole thread from the start and understood what Tefka was doing...calling out an ISSUE and using a CURRENT example, not intending to say that you are bad people.

If you took what you quoted above as anything else then maybe you need to look at why you thought it was meant as a slight to you and the GA.

 

[Subject 37]

[member="Isamu Baelor"]

Korr doesn't speak for myself.

There's always room for discussion of points, and as I said if there's a way I can get people to come to me with their problems then I'll listen.

 

[Kenrath]

opcorn:

 

[Isamu Baelor]

[member="Slevin Thawne"]

This comes back to why people may not be willing to discuss things with the GA.

You've got what is likely the next FO, coming in, and shitposting.

It's a bad look for the faction.

Again, I know I am no saint, but I have actively tried to be as nice, and inclusive, as I possibly can be.

Stepping away from the constant drama of the OS vs GR/GA has helped tremendously in that regards.

But people make mistakes, and learn from them.

 

[Subject 37]

[member="Isamu Baelor"]

Okay but that doesn't really help fix things.

You're pointing out a problem, and I understand it, but you're not offering a solution.

Sure we could fire Korr and box him up, but how does that make us look better or more approachable? To some he's just defending GA as a faction because he feels slighted, so then those people who support him would now feel they couldn't approach the new leadership.

 

[Isamu Baelor]

[member="Slevin Thawne"]

I wouldn't call that defending the GA. He just wanted to have a dig at me.

I have offered solutions: Communication. That is the most important thing.

Communication was lacking here, and because of that, it spiraled into all this drama.

Don't expect that everyone has to come to you. Maybe show some initiative, and reach out yourself.

Especially, don't come into a thread, and take digs at people. That just makes you, and the faction that you're a representative of, look like jerks.

 

[Subject 37]

[member="Isamu Baelor"]

That's my point though, Communication.

I personally did not even know there was an issue involved with this. You can't go to someone with an issue if you don't know there is an issue in the first place. This is the internet and you can't see when someone is upset.

 

[Isamu Baelor]

[member="Slevin Thawne"]

I meant more in regards to the intent to rebel the GE's dominion.

Although the rules don't say you have to, I think making conversation, and discussing that you're going to do it, and why you're going to do it, would've gone a long way to solving any preconceived notions anyone had.

This whole drama isn't brought about by one singular issue, but many issues that built up on top of each other, and eventually collapsed.

I could totally be wrong though.

 

[Rashae]

i guess i got spoiled and got with a couple of good groups that i rp with regularly and with good resulting stories. I focus on one aspect. Support RP when it comes to conflict, supporting other's stories and plotting Rashae's story. its that simple. that's it.

It is people that over complicate the situation. It can be fixed and remedied with good communication prior to the story unfolding. OOC details must be hammered out before the story launches. It may take a little longer but it saves aggravation in the long run.

Perhaps i over think things but insisting on the details, but in my experience it has saved a lot of headaches later.

 

[Subject 37]

[member="Isamu Baelor"]

That's totally fair and maybe a PM of heads up would have been appropriate.

It's not in the rules but yes it would have been nice. In the future I'll be sure that any rebellion I'm a part of will do this.

 

[Kelson]

Figured, since this is a thread for people to post suggestions on how to solve the currently discussed problem, i would chime in. Mostly because i havent seen anyone mention what came to my mind (or if they did i am blind and missed it). Sure, as [member="Isamu Baelor"] has said communication is key. A lot of the time, communication, just mentioning something in a agreeable, friendly manner heads off issues before they start. But the issue with that is, you did something already that required you to communicate 'hey, i didn't mean to be a shutta' and then explain in some degree what you actually meant.

See, from where i look at it, the problem isn't really communication. Not really. Its attitude and thinking before you act. Being 'nice' isn't something you should do AFTER you already made yourself look mean in your actions. In the few instances i have PVP'd for example, the whole three times, i always ask myself while making a post 'how does this sound'? What implications are being given off from how i am acting? From what it seems like to me, it doesn't look like anyone really... Thought about that here in this case.

The best preventative measure isn't communicating that you didn't mean to do something, or that 'no i didn't mean it like that'. Its making sure that before you even do anything, how you act doesn't give people a reason for concern or a reason for worry. That is not anyone elses job but your own. And in the case of a person organizing a faction and directing a bunch of people to do a bunch of things, its their job to make sure what they tell people to do doesn't come across in a bad way to others observing how the faction is acting. Remember, all those people outside your group likely have utterly no idea what is actually going on. I have seen a certain few groups where things were directed in such ways that were not so thought out. More so off of Choas then on Choas, as my experince on choas is almost strictly on a character level. Not a map level. Messing around in less then three or four invasions/rebellions/doms across multiple characters doesn't really count i don't think.

But yeah. [member="Slevin Thawne"] to bump in between you and Isamu, communication is what you do when you have already failed at thinking through how what you are about to do will look like. And sure, even with that people can still find issues. People absolutely -love- to find issues if we all haven't noticed already and i am certain we all have. But in the end, if you want to not have an issue with people going and pointing fingers, make sure how you do things and why doesn't give anyone reasons to raise fingers in the first place. Just my thoughts on it though.

 

[Darth Ayra]

All of the people listed in the OP are people I consider my friends, and I've read thousands of posts of them, from combat to dev threads. They take hits fairly, they play with anyone who asks them for a thread, and they are THE most inviting and inclusive people I have met on this board. Period.

I have to disagree with this. Since I joined this site in 2013 I have known from since the first couple of months in this RPG that if you want meaningful roleplay, and not the filler bar esque type roleplay, then you should go the people on that list. I've approached several people on that list several times over the course of the past three and a bit years. I would say that I've roleplayed with a handful of them, in a handful of threads and only one of those threads reached an ending (Thronebreaker).

Maybe I deserve it because I used to spam / trolling in the old Skype chats, as well as recent debacles such as the Lin Baden thing, but what I am trying to say is that these people aren't as inclusive as you think they are. You only need to look upon the Circe Savan years as further proof of that.

I'm aware this post isn't going to endear me to anyone Tefka highlighted, but this is my two cents.

 

[Kad Tor]

Okay I've read through this and thought I'd offer some observations.

1. [member="Tefka"], you are finally voicing what near every faction discord chat I've been in has voiced about this particular group of writers. It's been happening since I have been on this site in the form of various factions.

2. It does come across as meta gaming, and SHOULD be against the rules when the site is based on a map game.

3. Most of the people mentioned are staff. That's a problem! Staff should be setting the example. One key rule about leadership is the more responsibility you have the less rights you have. Staff behavior will create culture. If it's not the culture you want, then get new staff.

4. The map game will always lead to this type of behavior.