In My Opinion, This Is Niche Mentality & How It's Killing Smaller Factions

[Marcus Itera]

 

[WelshPsych]

I'm going to be a complete outsider joining this, no ties to either side. But I think the issue stems from fear of upsetting the staff, likely not in a way that they think you guys will retaliate but just, a lot of you are staff and do good work. From what I've experienced anyways, always help with my poor Factory creations so they are decent.

I just know I would hestiate to bring this up as an issue. I also like to think this isn't bad metagaming, I mean having accounts and a number of them isn't bad. People like to rp a different style, I know some days for me it's a FU others I rather be a trooper. Mean, that might just be me.

 

[Matreya]

[member="Slevin Thawne"]

Because you're just a small cog in the machine, and my battle's with the machine.

I have love for this. No clue why. I feel its... Well... Deep. Kudos.

In my defense, some of you are jerks.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

believe the Chaos Illuminati exists. I'd head of it.

ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED.






Ok, but in all seriousness, why did I post and only quote Tefka? Because, if we are being completely honest, non personal ooc nor ic, hes an ass and im a dick. I have actually spoken to him about things similar in the past, argued with him over a lot of it, felt slighted, and even began a legitimate "Down With Tefka's Fascism" movement. (Boy was it a slow movement.)

I genuinely felt the guy hated me. Out of character. Randomized, frak that guy, he is a pleb. Point ant laugh. That kind.

But after realizing a bit of it was my deal, I had to sit back and shut up. Be a man. No baby, im being put upon stuff.

And... Dude he does the best he can. Like I said, hes a bit gruff, handles poodoo... Well... Horribly sometimes. But all in all, i also watched him try recently to be democratic. He listens to the masses, tries to bring trust worthy people into positions of power.

Also, he doesnt want to rock the boat more then necessary.

Hence my question: for a guy who doesnt want to make waves, to justify this kind of thing, what, as a whole, must be going on?

Ignore the pointed fingers. Look at the problem.



THIS COMING FROM A GUY WHO FOR A TIME WAS EVERYONES PROBLEM.

If the Shunned Writer of Chaos, the one who loved to blast Tef, says it must be right, it must be... Right?



And on the list of pointed fingers...

Yeah. I have seen this happen. But it isnt like most people wi believe it is. Believe me. I love writing with Cira, though it has been a loooooooong time since i really did, plus Jorus/Ashin. He my man crush. Lets be honest here. (LOL)

It does happen. Even from them. But the point i wanna make is, NEITHER OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE I SEEN BE VINDICTIVE.

Crap at one point i chose to legitimately base my character around attacking Jons characters' creations. I went at Jorus, Rave, Velok (though he died as i was building into that) etc. Yet he has literally not been worse then, "Dude you need to chill man."

Cira.... Well i hate her cause shes the unknown greatest stealth character according too everyone and I wanted that to be Zaiden lmao. No but seriously. Nice people are in that list.

I highly doubt it was intentional.

It was just something that happened. Which leads to this. A means to not have it happen anymore.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

I have to disagree with this. Since I joined this site in 2013 I have known from since the first couple of months in this RPG that if you want meaningful roleplay, and not the filler bar esque type roleplay, then you should go the people on that list.

Joined the site in 2013. Have had tons of quality rp, barely interacted with the people on the list, beyond Jorus and to a lesser degree Cira mostly in the OP days and even then it was quite limited. Saying I only got filler bar esque roleplay does all the great people I threaded with a disservice. Still managed to get a good deal done.


The only person on the 'list' I'm close to is [member="Taryc Ap'Irae"], who joined very recently.


I guess [member="Valiens Nantaris"] can confirm I don't have the attitude to ingratiate myself with 'privileged people'. Too blunt for that. And uncaring about what most people think of me.


[member="Avedia Lacroix"]

 

[Eugen Aker]

[member="Slevin Thawne"]

You're asking why people didn't come and try to talk to you on these matters. Since we're kind of just letting everything out in the open right now, I'm just going to be honest and say that on an OOC level, I don't feel comfortable dealing with the Galactic Alliance in my capacity as the new SJO Faction Owner, especially as it looks like Ryan will become FO again. Similarly, other people who consider themselves outsiders don't feel comfortable approaching the GA or the other factions some of your more prominent members create/back. They haven't had good experiences trying to talk to you all in the past, and don't expect things to change.

The contempt that has been displayed by some GA members towards the SJO is just unreal, and many of us are left with the impression that the GA despises our very existence as a faction, and would like to see our demise. Which is troubling as we should be allies against all the Sith/Imperial groups who I think outnumber us at this point.

[member="Ryan Korr"]

So let's try this communication thing. It's clear that you're not much of a fan of the SJO, and this is going to be a problem moving forward if we don't deal with it. I'm not looking to get into any SJO/GA drama in this thread, but what would I would like for us to do is to have a chat sometime outside of this so that I can try to address some of your grievances against the SJO, IC and OOC. Would you be open to that?

[member="Kad Tor"]

I have stated before that the map game itself ultimately leads to this sort of behavior. I don't think anyone has acted with malicious intent in the instance brought up by Tefka in the OP, but it's still shady activity.

I'm guessing the original intent of the map game was to keep factions engaged by some visible metric of progress like in a video game, but as I see it now, it does much to discourage collaboration as it breeds this hyper-competitive atmosphere that makes us toxic toward each other.

We can call out individual members or cliques all day, but that's not going to fix the systemic problems that plague the whole community. The map game needs a retooling to protect smaller groups with less OOC clout from being bullied out of existence by more established ones. The current situation on Chaos perfectly encapsulates what we see in the real world in certain industries where well-established market leaders are able to collude to protect their shares from upstarts as there is no adequate protections or regulations in place to stop this.

 

[Voices of The Deep]

Maybe just...have one representative character within each faction rather than like twenty? I mean, we faced this problem on another site we were on and our way of fixing it was basically allowing writers to have however many characters they wanted...but they had to register one definitive character for each faction which would basically be that factions one active participator for wars and raids and ect.


Lets say you have 20 Sith characters...well out of those twenty you have to register 1 of them as that factions main member. The most actively played one, and your most favorite. That way when a dominion or invasion comes around you can only use your registered faction character to jump into the thread rather than using your other nineteen as well just to stampede a thread.


I don't know if Chaos can somehow make that work, but i do think it is possible. Heck, you guys could even mess with the User Group colors just to make it happen. Make it so every Major faction has their own specified color? Sith for Red, Underground Yellow, Iron Empire gray, Jedi, blue (Or silver) and ect. And every writer can only have one character binded to each faction and you can tell who by the color of their names.

Granted, you'd have to do some messing around with the site usergroup colors but...we got some smart staff so i doubt it'd be impossible.


Either way, thats my two cents. Do with it as you will.

 

[Matreya]

I don't have the attitude to ingratiate myself with 'privileged people'. Too blunt for that. And uncaring about what most people think of me.

 

[Jamie Pyne]

, people bring -the exact- army/fleet/equipment list to contend with either the environment or another writer's actions in particular.

While this statement is obviously not the focal point of this thread, I have to state that this is not exactly true. I would like to point, conceited as it may seem, to the invasion of Mustafar Hex. An invasion where Jamie was woefully ill-prepared for a fight against Castor Ren, in which she lost in a rather embarrassing defeat. Nothing in that fight was scripted or decided beforehand, outside of my wish that my primary character not die when it was clear she had been beaten. The consequences of that are still ongoing, and have continued through a private thread that will continue through the Invasion of Hoth as well.

Sure, people teleport all over the galaxy to engage in fights, but in reality, that has to happen in order for RP to even happen.

The difference is whether or not both writers decide to engage in a fair and collaborative story. That is up to the writers to communicate with one another.

Communication on SWRP is key, and sorely lacking in many, many ways.​

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Talk to your fellow writers.​

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[Siobhan Kerrigan]

[member="Arisa Yune"]

You're asking why people didn't come and try to talk to you on these matters. Since we're kind of just letting everything out in the open right now, I'm just going to be honest and say that on an OOC level, I don't feel comfortable dealing with the Galactic Alliance in my capacity as the new SJO Faction Owner, especially as it looks like Ryan will become FO again. Similarly, other people who consider themselves outsiders don't feel comfortable approaching the GA or the other factions some of your more prominent members create/back. They haven't had good experiences trying to talk to you all in the past, and don't expect things to change. The contempt that has been displayed by some GA members towards the SJO is just unreal, and many of us are left with the impression that the GA despises our very existence as a faction, and would like to see our demise. Which is troubling as we should be allies against all the Sith/Imperial groups who I think outnumber us at this point.

I nominate myself. If I win, then I will step down as the SJO FO to assume my new responsibilities as the leader of the GA.

I perceive a certain degree of...inconsistency.

 

[Vora Kaar]

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"], I believe its called options.

As well, everyone has reasons for what they do. So as mentioned in this thread, How about you bring it forward with the question of "So um, if you say this... then why are you doing that...."

Many have already talked to her about why she chose to nominate herself, and as far as I can tell, the only reason she was pointed as FO of the SJO, is as a replacement for the recent FO stepping down, as well as an FA being removed. So as far as the faction knows, Its temporary. Why do I say this? Because people actually went to her and asked her what the hell she was doing, instead of calling her out on it in a public forum like so many people are doing now. As you stated, you are a blunt person, and thats fine. You have your ways.

I am just mentioning this because it seems inconsistent with the thread being all about communication, when I have no knowledge of you speaking to her in a PM.

If the site wants to be better as a community, then we need to work together and ask what the hell the other person is doing, before questioning their motives. I have nothing against you, or anyone here on this board really. I have had bad instances in the past, and would rather not have any more, but I think it would be wise that with this thread being a hot topic right now, that everyone just take a second and check themselves before they wreck themselves.

 

[Natasi Fortan]

[member="Arisa Yune"]








I perceive a certain degree of...inconsistency.

Is any of this relevant to the conversation at hand? Does this change what we all know happened? Please explain.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

[member="Darren Shaw"]


The quote and screenshot are not from a pm.


As the link shows, it's from the GA nominations thread in their public ooc.


I just find it a bit strange that a writer would want to lead a faction they say they're not comfortable with and which they perceive to be hostile to the faction they were just elected leader of.

 

[Ignatius Rausgeber]

Please explain

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"]

 

[Natasi Fortan]

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"]

I knew you'd get me.

 

[Matreya]

Is any of this relevant to the conversation at hand? Does this change what we all know happened? Please explain.

Seems like it to me. The whole point of this was a feeling of underhanded moves, blatant appearing in their intentions to screw others. We have established that the majority of people dont believe the OP is so cut and dry attack on a personal level, so why not question a seemingly sharky snipe for greater power.

I am neither a member of either groups, nor would the aforementioned nomination effect me, but I see Sios point. Seems perfectly at place in this thread.

 

[Zeradias Mant]

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"]

A lot of the drama from this thread is the result of the perception of people on the outside looking in without any context, an entirely justifiable worry to have. Please do not contribute to the very problem we're trying to combat.

 

[Asharad Graush]

when thread gets re-opened​

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[Natasi Fortan]

Seems like it to me. The whole point of this was a feeling of underhanded moves, blatant appearing in their intentions to screw others. We have established that the majority of people dont believe the OP is so cut and dry attack on a personal level, so why not question a seemingly sharky snipe for greater power.

I am neither a member of either groups, nor would the aforementioned nomination effect me, but I see Sios point. Seems perfectly at place in this thread.

I don't see the connection - I mean, Arisa's point is that, due to actions and attitudes of those mentioned in this thread, relations between the SJO and the GA are not what they could be. Since a faction owner could very easily set a standard for behavior in a faction, and could refuse to allow the kind of underhanded and shady metagaming (or, for sensitive souls, "the appearance of metagaming"), it's not particularly inconsistent to see the opportunity to take a leadership role as a way to both overcome problematic behaviors exhibited and/or tolerated by past faction leadership, and improve relations with people who had, in the past, felt uncomfortable with them.

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"] seems to be implying that Arisa was trashing the entire GA and, if that were the case, she would have a point that seeking leadership of it would seem out of place. However, the characterization is disingenuous given the context. After all, Graf didn't PM invasion terms to the entire GA playerbase, did he? The entire GA playerbase wasn't involved in the retaliatory rebellion attempt, were they?

In the long run, it doesn't really matter, but I don't see how Arisa's leadership bid has anything to do with the behaviors at issue here. If you see it differently I can respect that, though. Game on, buddy.

 

[Progflaw99]

The lack of relevance in this thread, is too karking high!

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Edit: But really guys - I think a huge part of the discussion here is "Perception is Reality" so on that topic.
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Is it something that *can* be fixed? I think people have already hit on the number one key important piece of it - Communication. With open lines of communication, a person can't credibly say "I wasn't talked to" or "This looks shady" as they either know it's not, or they had the presence of mind to ask about it. No one is ever going to cut out meta completely, the fact that we have plans for our characters are meta in and of themselves. So maybe we need to start thinking "What rule could we implement" and start asking ourselves "What could we encourage, or what could we emphasize to reduce false perceptions?"

Are false perceptions something the board is responsible for managing? It shouldn't be - though I think it's important that we remind ourselves that our actions have much longer term consequences, or even unintended consequences than we might see in the moment. I'm not banging the drums either way, but these are a few thoughts I've had while observing.​

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1. Let's really make it a focus of our community here to be kind to each other - sure maybe not all holding hands and kumbyah or what have you, but I mean c'mon guys. We're literally all here because at some point in our life, Star Wars had a profound impact on us. Treat each other how we'd like to be. Sure, there's always a PVP aspect, but make it fun for everyone.​

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2. If someone feels unapproachable to you - figure out is that a perception I have because someone told me that, or is it because I've done what I can to try and talk to them and things haven't worked? PM's between writers should always always be the first go to unless it's something that is against site policy, or you've exhausted all other means. Be sure we're not spreading the cancer that are rumors. Over time it's natural to run into people you'd rather not write with, and that's fine but be gracious to each other.​

 

[Tefka]

GA nominations are an internal dispute and do not affect other factions than the GA. If you have an issue, take it up with the current GA admins or there. This thread is not an outlet for that.

Let it go, or we will start thread banning or closing this thread.